Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
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Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
Homemommy wrote:WxFreak wrote:
And before anyone argues that we don’t over-consume, please explain why there is an epidemic of obesity plaguing the nation at the moment. Food is simply another form of energy being transferred from the earth to our gut. I’m not making fun of fat people—far from it. I’m just using a national problem to illustrate my point.
I just wanted to comment on this a little more, even though this part is off topic. While I'm not going to argue the over-consuming by some, it is my opinion that is not so much the quantity of food people are consuming but the quality of the food. So much of it is nutrient-devoid. Plain, white breads that are bleached and processed until they have to "enrich" it with vitamins. Which brings me to another point. Have you ever listened to those "nutritionists" on TV? They actually tell people that they don't need to take vitamins, because their food already has it in it? WTF? The sodium in foods are sky-high, fiber practically non-existent, fats and especially saturated fats are in crazy amounts. So, I don't think it's so much that we eat too much, but that what we do eat is just pure crap.
Sorry to get so off topic, but food is a topic that burns my ass.
Yep - people are fat, not so much because they overeat (though that's part of it) but its because most of our food is made with synthetic stuff that is really, really high calorie, and really bad for your.
There is corn in almost everything you eat, unless you're doing organic/farm to table stuff. High fructose corn syrup is one of the worst offenders. You can blame the farm lobby and the government, for subsidies for corn which make it cheaper to use high fructose corn syrup instead of surgar.
Plus - poor people have very limited ability to buy anything that is healthy. My neighborhood, for instance, is not even considered a food desert (a place where grocery stores are non existant) but the Piggly Wiggly that is the only grocery store that doesn't require over an hour of bus riding is absolutely disgusting, and is filled with mostly overpriced processed foods. What little there is in the way of produce is wilted, low quality, and quite pricey.
Its a lot easier to go to the gas station and use your EBT (food stamps) on chips, soda, and candy than it is to take the bus to the grocery store and/or the farmers market... and then you have to deal with substandard refrigerators/freezers in poor folks homes that keep them from being able to keep foods from spoiling.
Ironically, in a rich country, obesity is a sign of poverty, as weird as that seems.
jmundie- Winter Specialist
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Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
Yeah, we do consume a lot of junk--that is for sure. But obesity a sign of poverty? Maybe for some, but I think it's more along the lines that we find it too easy to buy the junk forced on us by companies more interested in profit than providing decent food for us to eat (and we don't have the time to raise our own food as in yester years). It raises their profit margin to use garbage (like the latest fiasco with 'pink slime'), instead of decent ingredients. It goes back to greed.
And I apologize for taking this thread into a different direction than the title.
The point I was trying to make is there are certain laws of physics (thermodynamics) that state we have a finite amount of useable energy in our Universe. I’m sure that certainly applies to our little mud ball of a planet, as well. We cannot create or destroy energy, but we can convert to a non-useable form that dissipates and is lost to us. We can turn a blind eye to that fact, and ignore it for the sake of more “stuff” for us today, verses less “stuff” for our offspring tomorrow, and, if so, that will be how history remembers our choices. There are other forms of energy that would last as long as our planet (fusion for one example), but who knows if or when we'll develop it into a useable form.
Unfortunately, we have an economy based on greed. The latest mess with JP Morgan Chase is a prime example of it. Until that changes, the prosperous countries will continue to consume energy as if there is no tomorrow.
And I apologize for taking this thread into a different direction than the title.
The point I was trying to make is there are certain laws of physics (thermodynamics) that state we have a finite amount of useable energy in our Universe. I’m sure that certainly applies to our little mud ball of a planet, as well. We cannot create or destroy energy, but we can convert to a non-useable form that dissipates and is lost to us. We can turn a blind eye to that fact, and ignore it for the sake of more “stuff” for us today, verses less “stuff” for our offspring tomorrow, and, if so, that will be how history remembers our choices. There are other forms of energy that would last as long as our planet (fusion for one example), but who knows if or when we'll develop it into a useable form.
Unfortunately, we have an economy based on greed. The latest mess with JP Morgan Chase is a prime example of it. Until that changes, the prosperous countries will continue to consume energy as if there is no tomorrow.
Last edited by WxFreak on 2012-05-15, 9:47 am; edited 1 time in total
WxFreak- Founding Member
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Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
Homemommy wrote:WxFreak wrote:
And before anyone argues that we don’t over-consume, please explain why there is an epidemic of obesity plaguing the nation at the moment. Food is simply another form of energy being transferred from the earth to our gut. I’m not making fun of fat people—far from it. I’m just using a national problem to illustrate my point.
I just wanted to comment on this a little more, even though this part is off topic. While I'm not going to argue the over-consuming by some, it is my opinion that is not so much the quantity of food people are consuming but the quality of the food. So much of it is nutrient-devoid. Plain, white breads that are bleached and processed until they have to "enrich" it with vitamins. Which brings me to another point. Have you ever listened to those "nutritionists" on TV? They actually tell people that they don't need to take vitamins, because their food already has it in it? WTF? The sodium in foods are sky-high, fiber practically non-existent, fats and especially saturated fats are in crazy amounts. So, I don't think it's so much that we eat too much, but that what we do eat is just pure crap.
Sorry to get so off topic, but food is a topic that burns my ass.
Point very well made, Homemommy--and you are absolutely correct. But I took my mom to a buffet style restaurant this past weekend, and after I saw how much people were consuming there--some who could barely walk because the amount of weight they were carrying--I think buffets should be outlawed (not really--but almost). I guess people want to feel they eat their money's worth, but it's killing us.
BTW, I’m just as guilty as the next person when it comes to overindulging in food. I LOVE to eat, and I love fattening foods. Who doesn’t? I just splurge in moderation. LOL
Ok--off of food topic. We now return you to your regularly scheduled debate already in progress.
WxFreak- Founding Member
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Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
Interesting article I just found this afternoon. Thought it was loosely associated with the topic at hand (at least the most recent part of the discussion).
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47421743/ns/technology_and_science-science/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47421743/ns/technology_and_science-science/
WxFreak- Founding Member
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Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
One final blurb from me, and I’ll let people smarter than I get back to figuring out if we’re going to burn like Venus, or freeze like Mars.
I’m not trying to be preachy here, as I don’t even attend a church. I’m burnt out with established religious institutions that are built by coercion and manipulation. Nevertheless, it is my belief that every problem we are currently facing, whether environmental, or economical, in the health care field, or real estate, and even our food industry, is a direct result that we have put profit above our concern with life (human and otherwise). I don’t know anyone’s religious persuasion here, and I believe it is a matter of the heart, but I do believe the Good Book gave us wisdom when it said; the love of money (not money itself) is the root of all evil. It really is. Humanity has brought so much suffering and misery upon itself by simply putting wealth, and its accumulation, above any other concern. Until we get our priorities straight and put profit back in its proper position as inferior to other issues, no amount of political agendas, environmental policies, or economic strategies will get us out of the hole we have dug for ourselves. Hopefully, we do have a Creator who will save us from our proclivity for ignoring the obvious.
Again, sorry if I took this in a slightly different direction than just global warming--but I do think many of these issues are intertwined with each other, and are caused by a common theme. Strictly my opinion, and I'll let the discussion go back to purely climate change from here on.
I’m not trying to be preachy here, as I don’t even attend a church. I’m burnt out with established religious institutions that are built by coercion and manipulation. Nevertheless, it is my belief that every problem we are currently facing, whether environmental, or economical, in the health care field, or real estate, and even our food industry, is a direct result that we have put profit above our concern with life (human and otherwise). I don’t know anyone’s religious persuasion here, and I believe it is a matter of the heart, but I do believe the Good Book gave us wisdom when it said; the love of money (not money itself) is the root of all evil. It really is. Humanity has brought so much suffering and misery upon itself by simply putting wealth, and its accumulation, above any other concern. Until we get our priorities straight and put profit back in its proper position as inferior to other issues, no amount of political agendas, environmental policies, or economic strategies will get us out of the hole we have dug for ourselves. Hopefully, we do have a Creator who will save us from our proclivity for ignoring the obvious.
Again, sorry if I took this in a slightly different direction than just global warming--but I do think many of these issues are intertwined with each other, and are caused by a common theme. Strictly my opinion, and I'll let the discussion go back to purely climate change from here on.
WxFreak- Founding Member
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Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
Good posts WxFreak, all very well said and I share almost all of those opinions.
Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
Stovepipe wrote:Good posts WxFreak, all very well said and I share almost all of those opinions.
Well, thanks Stove. And even if you didn’t agree that’s cool too, as I’m sure there are many who differ from my world view. Different strokes for different folks.
But I will let the discussion go back to its original dialogue about global warming, as I sort of veered off into a tangent of my own.
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Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
WxFreak wrote:Stovepipe wrote:Good posts WxFreak, all very well said and I share almost all of those opinions.
Well, thanks Stove. And even if you didn’t agree that’s cool too, as I’m sure there are many who differ from my world view. Different strokes for different folks.
But I will let the discussion go back to its original dialogue about global warming, as I sort of veered off into a tangent of my own.
Here's an old bump-worthy thread that I bet you could really sink your teeth into:
http://www.tnweatherspot.com/t224-emergency-preparedness
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on some of the stuff that was mentioned in there.
Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
Overconsumption and short term outlooks based on profit all come from an economic system where debt = capital.
Back when people actually had to save actual money, instead of a central bank providing new debt to banks who in turn provide new debt to consumers, we didn't over consume. There was real risk in providing capital for investment, and there had to actually be real capital in existance to fund that stuff.
Its the basic part of real capitalism that has disappeared that allows us to consume consume consume from future productive capabilities. That's what you're doing when you go into debt. You're promising to pay back the money you spend now with earnings in the future.
We've pulled forward a HUGe amount of productive capability, the result of which is impoverishment of our children/grandchildren and overuse of scarce resources on our planet.
And that does come down to greed. Capitalism is supposed to manage greed through managing risk. When risk disappears, or at least seems to disappear, through central banking and centrally planned economies - greed runs rampant and making money now at the expense of later becomes the rule.
Back when people actually had to save actual money, instead of a central bank providing new debt to banks who in turn provide new debt to consumers, we didn't over consume. There was real risk in providing capital for investment, and there had to actually be real capital in existance to fund that stuff.
Its the basic part of real capitalism that has disappeared that allows us to consume consume consume from future productive capabilities. That's what you're doing when you go into debt. You're promising to pay back the money you spend now with earnings in the future.
We've pulled forward a HUGe amount of productive capability, the result of which is impoverishment of our children/grandchildren and overuse of scarce resources on our planet.
And that does come down to greed. Capitalism is supposed to manage greed through managing risk. When risk disappears, or at least seems to disappear, through central banking and centrally planned economies - greed runs rampant and making money now at the expense of later becomes the rule.
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Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
jmundie wrote:
And that does come down to greed. Capitalism is supposed to manage greed through managing risk. When risk disappears, or at least seems to disappear, through central banking and centrally planned economies - greed runs rampant and making money now at the expense of later becomes the rule.
And that is why our economic system is broken, and in crisis.
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Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
Mainstream article on how we're screwing up the oceans. People tend to focus on the global surface temperature but often forget the many other ramifications of the greenhouse gasses man is belching into the atmosphere. We could turn this car around, but will we? Probably not. We're gonna keep going full speed ahead till we drive it right off a cliff.
Plenty less fish in the sea: Dramatic pictures show how ocean life is dying
Oceans full of “dead zones” where nothing lives could only be 40 years away - and in some places that is already reality
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/plenty-less-fish-in-the-sea-dramatic-838275
Plenty less fish in the sea: Dramatic pictures show how ocean life is dying
Oceans full of “dead zones” where nothing lives could only be 40 years away - and in some places that is already reality
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/plenty-less-fish-in-the-sea-dramatic-838275
Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
Stove, I’m afraid you are correct in your assessment. Turn on the evening news (which I only do on occasion now—too damn depressing) and you’ll hear about the economy slowing, or not picking up enough steam. We need to make more, buy more, produce more, and build more to get this economy back on track. We are told to work ourselves into the ground to produce more capital and profit which usually ends up in the hands of the government or company executives that spend their days at the golf course, or on the company yacht. We are stuck in a catch-22, where to simply keep the market afloat, and pay ourselves and our executives the amount of money desired; we need our economy in overdrive. We have to produce more, to sell more, so we can buy more. If the human race suddenly decided we didn't need so much "stuff" to be happy, maybe we could change our economy to serve us, instead of us being slaves to a system of our own making.
Meanwhile, concern for our only home in the universe is touted as unnecessary. We selfishly use the planet as if it’s ours—and only ours. Call me crazy, but I don’t think that’s the case.
Meanwhile, concern for our only home in the universe is touted as unnecessary. We selfishly use the planet as if it’s ours—and only ours. Call me crazy, but I don’t think that’s the case.
Last edited by WxFreak on 2012-05-18, 11:15 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
Stovepipe wrote:Mainstream article on how we're screwing up the oceans. People tend to focus on the global surface temperature but often forget the many other ramifications of the greenhouse gasses man is belching into the atmosphere. We could turn this car around, but will we? Probably not. We're gonna keep going full speed ahead till we drive it right off a cliff.
Plenty less fish in the sea: Dramatic pictures show how ocean life is dying
Oceans full of “dead zones” where nothing lives could only be 40 years away - and in some places that is already reality
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/plenty-less-fish-in-the-sea-dramatic-838275
I'm sure this isn't helping....
http://www.insidebayarea.com/oaklandtribune/localnews/ci_20576845/scientists-find-100-fold-increase-plastic-trash-pacific
jmundie- Winter Specialist
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Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
I was finally able to look at the site with those pics. Almost couldn't believe the difference in the size of the fish from the 50's to the present. If that doesn't show us how we are affecting our environment, nothing will.
Meanwhile, and seemingly more important, all hail the king, Facebook, as they are now a public company, making headlines across the world.
Meanwhile, and seemingly more important, all hail the king, Facebook, as they are now a public company, making headlines across the world.
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Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
WxFreak wrote:
Meanwhile, and seemingly more important, all hail the king, Facebook, as they are now a public company, making headlines across the world.
I wont comment on the fish but IMO google will probably own Facebook in less than 5yrs...I would buy google stock over FB stock any day of the week but this is just my opinion.
Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
Arctic melt releasing ancient methane
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18120093
Scientists have identified thousands of sites in the Arctic where methane that has been stored for many millennia is bubbling into the atmosphere.
The methane has been trapped by ice, but is able to escape as the ice melts.
Writing in the journal Nature Geoscience, the researchers say this ancient gas could have a significant impact on climate change.
Methane is the second most important greenhouse gas after CO2 and levels are rising after a few years of stability.
There are many sources of the gas around the world, some natural and some man-made, such as landfill waste disposal sites and farm animals.
Tracking methane to these various sources is not easy.
But the researchers on the new Arctic project, led by Katey Walter Anthony from the University of Alaska at Fairbanks (UAF), were able to identify long-stored gas by the ratio of different isotopes of carbon in the methane molecules.
Using aerial and ground-based surveys, the team identified about 150,000 methane seeps in Alaska and Greenland in lakes along the margins of ice cover.
Local sampling showed that some of these are releasing the ancient methane, perhaps from natural gas or coal deposits underneath the lakes, whereas others are emitting much younger gas, presumably formed through decay of plant material in the lakes.
"We observed most of these cryosphere-cap seeps in lakes along the boundaries of permafrost thaw and in moraines and fjords of retreating glaciers," they write, emphasising the point that warming in the Arctic is releasing this long-stored carbon.
"If this relationship holds true for other regions where sedimentary basins are at present capped by permafrost, glaciers and ice sheets, such as northern West Siberia, rich in natural gas and partially underlain by thin permafrost predicted to degrade substantially by 2100, a very strong increase in methane carbon cycling will result, with potential implications for climate warming feedbacks."
Atmospheric methane concentration is rising again after a plateau of a few years
Quantifying methane release across the Arctic is an active area of research, with several countries despatching missions to monitor sites on land and sea.
The region stores vast quantities of the gas in different places - in and under permafrost on land, on and under the sea bed, and - as evidenced by the latest research - in geological reservoirs.
"The Arctic is the fastest warming region on the planet, and has many methane sources that will increase as the temperature rises," commented Prof Euan Nisbet from Royal Holloway, University of London, who is also involved in Arctic methane research.
"This is yet another serious concern: the warming will feed the warming."
How serious and how immediate a threat this feedback mechanism presents is a controversial area, with some scientists believing that the impacts will not be seen for many decades, and others pointing out the possibility of a rapid release that could swiftly accelerate global warming.
Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
Am just not into Global Warming. Just my 2 cents worth. Thanks..
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Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
NC Considers Making Sea Level Rise Illegal
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/2012/05/30/nc-makes-sea-level-rise-illegal/
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/2012/05/30/nc-makes-sea-level-rise-illegal/
Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
Saw this today on Goddard's site. With a stroke of Hansen's magical pen, the 1930-1960 warm period in Iceland is gone. No wonder Hansen gets paid so handsomely, that is amazing. Those that win the war get to write the history. Right now AGW is winning the war and they are getting to rewrite the history.
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Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
Saw this graph the other day on Anthony Watts' site and thought I would share. I find it interesting so many scientists continue down the AGW road when the godfather of AGW had it so wrong and continues to be wrong on many of his predictions. The biggest one recently has been his constantly calling for big Nino's (due to AGW) that aren't showing up.
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Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
This is just me speaking but i never bought into Global Warming. Yes the earth does warm and it also cools. In cycles. Nothing man can do to control the weather. This was one time God did not let him take control. Our Government wants us to be like China was just a few years ago and that's riding bicycles and driving electric wind up cars and tell us we are saving the earth . While China keeps on blowing smoke out of it's chimney's. Big time people bought into Global Warming making hundreds of millions of dollars. This is just one reason when you cut your A/C on in ur car u are using 134R instead of the R12 or was it R22 . They also have an other cooling gas 410A found in home cooling systems. One was for car A/C other was for Refrigerator. But any way u get the ideal. The question many years ago was is the earth warming or cooling.? This has been going on for many years and will keep on going on until the avg person pay it no mind. Does sun spots have anything to do with the warming of the earth ? Or cooling.? I myself thinks it may have some effect but no one knows for sure. There needs to be more study done on this for many years.Yes am for clean air,water and so on. Why do we have years with to little rain/snow, to little cold or warm ? One thing i can say for sure is it called the JET STREAM which we all know control a major part of our winters and every other season. But there are other factors to. I for one am not a fan of Global Warming. But if all this makes no sense, remember this one for sure. FIGURES DON'T LIE, BUT LIARS FIGURE. IF you would like a DVD of this in short form just send your money to,,,,,,, Here a quarter call someone who cares. Have a great weekend everyone.
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Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
I hope I got this right, but we have now entered a negative PDO, and shouldn't we see a bit of cool down from that? If I heard right, and we continue to have warmer seasons, the we have to consider the idea of AGW.
Here's another interesting thought. Weather Underground's Dr. Masters recently had a blog entry about the increase of vegetation in the artic due to warmer temperatures. I wonder how the increase of vegetation will counteract the CO2 increase? (My personal guess it wouldn't be enough to help).
http://classic.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2369
Here's another interesting thought. Weather Underground's Dr. Masters recently had a blog entry about the increase of vegetation in the artic due to warmer temperatures. I wonder how the increase of vegetation will counteract the CO2 increase? (My personal guess it wouldn't be enough to help).
http://classic.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2369
Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
etnwx wrote:I hope I got this right, but we have now entered a negative PDO, and shouldn't we see a bit of cool down from that? If I heard right, and we continue to have warmer seasons, the we have to consider the idea of AGW.
Here's another interesting thought. Weather Underground's Dr. Masters recently had a blog entry about the increase of vegetation in the artic due to warmer temperatures. I wonder how the increase of vegetation will counteract the CO2 increase? (My personal guess it wouldn't be enough to help).
http://classic.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2369
Generally the PDO relates to a cooling of global temperatures but there are other factors as well. If you look back since the big El Nino of 1998, global temps have stagnated if not slightly started to cool over that time. If the AMO cools as past cycles indicate it should soon, you should see an increase in the decline.
As for warmer temperatures in the Arctic, CO2 isn't the sole or even primary driver in the current period of warming in the Arctic. If CO2 is driving the warming Arctic and decline in sea ice, then how does one explain the increasing sea ice in Antarctica to record levels since they began monitoring ice there?
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Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
Is the root of all kinds of evil! Anyway not my subject global warming is false. Man will not destroy earth we cannot! The word of god is clear. He will destroy and create a new heaven and earth! But from the beginning it has been hot,cold,hail,tornadoes,floods,snow, 2000 years later we still have it! So I say through your trash out the window and pick the word of god!
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Re: Weather-Manmade Global Warming Link Builds, Study Says
Everyone has there own thinking about about GW but am not one of them to jump on the GW band wagon. I have said from the start man can not add 1 degree to the world weather but this is my thinking and other have there own which is fine. But in Genesis;;; 8: 22. it tells me all i want to know about GW. I agree with Jscentraltn 200%. Am not knocking anyone for what they stand for. Have a good day and God Bless:V:
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